Follow Will Be Wild wherever you get your podcasts, or you can listen early on Amazon Music or early and ad-free by subscribing to Wondery Plus in Apple Podcasts or the Wondery app. But then a friend of mine came from Australia and we were just like, So, this is the part of the day where we sit down and talk about our codependency., Rowan Mangan: Martha Beck: Rowan Mangan: When I am open with the people I grew up with, they dont like it. It's my intention to go on living in this country until the good Lord strikes me down where I stand. Youre very right that that works only in situations where people dont feel entitled. Get them out of the way early. And just go, That was wonderful. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy, Learn more about your ad choices. Rowan Mangan: I hate to even say that out loud. I'm also the co-developer (along with Martha Beck) of the online writing course, Write Into Light. To say something happened does not prove it happened; to say one has physical evidence is not to show that evidence. Rowan Mangan: Dont you? And like we planned the day around these times where we would get to sit close together on the couch. Thank you, Bev. It was just us. That night, Oprah and Martha sat down. And then that all her siblings would love her no matter what. The other person comes up within a few minutes. Martha Beck: Not the internet, the spider web. And yeah, women have been lower on the power hierarchy than men historically so it is much more identified as a female virtue. Martha Beck: She also runs the Wild Inventures newsletter and community on Substack. There were about eight people in the room at that point. Well be right back with more Bewildered. Martha Beck: And Oprah Winfrey has called her one of the smartest women I know. Martha Beck: So for those people out there listening who maybe have never heard of this way, what are some things that will inform them on how to have conversations with people? There you go. Debunking the junk science behind health fads, wellness scams and nonsensical nutrition advice. How Martha felt after years of marriage to Karen when Karen told her she was in love with Rowan.3. Martha Beck: Well, weve got it now recorded so I think we got this. Yes. I think at the moment, its probably parenting stuff. The gates are open, whatever happens and thats the fun of it is you never know what adventure life is going to bring you when you say, I will live on this thread of truth that I feel is myself. Its like youre pulling this thread towards you. Rowan Mangan: Its a fire hose of sisterly familial love. Rowan Mangan: She holds three Harvard degrees in social science, and Oprah Winfrey has called her one of the smartest women I know. Her newest book, The Way of Integrity: Finding the Path to Your True Self, was an instant New York Times Best Seller. Rowan Mangan: Its non judgment. Rowan Mangan: Youre born free to fly. On We Can Do Hard Things, my wife Abby Wambach, my sister Amanda Doyle, and I do the only thing that has ever made life easier: We talk honestly about the hard. No worries. Martha Beck: Martha Beck: But can we just pause and repeat what Rowan said? Im Glennon Doyle, author of Untamed, the book that was released at the very start of the pandemic and became a lifeline for millions. Like, thats a really great point that its an ecosystem of love. 1. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices. We do not do things. Women in particular are called virtuous for sacrificing their own desires, needs, and even health in the service of others. You can. So when we were first together, we were on this ranch and one things about being out in nature is its very silent and theres not a lot of hubbub and its hard to hide whats going on in a house. Or, No, no, Marty, you actually do sound passive aggressive. And I didnt believe it either. And I think thats like 95%. Rowan Mangan: Youre not happy with me? Thats why were here. Our handle is @bewilderedpodcast. Youre dead wrong. Yeah, bashing down pillars. Rowan Mangan: And the reason we thought this was such a great question was because in our culture, for many of us, it is seen as laudable to have this disordered behavior. They were unspoken before she came along and now its like, were having to confront all the things that we didnt. In this episode of Bewildered, Martha and Rowan explore the concept of time and our complex relationship with it. 3. Ro is currently pursuing publication for her first novel, a magical realist thriller set on the west coast of Ireland.TW: @rowanmanganIG: @rowan_mangan To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. It could go really bad, right? You can find out more about which cookies we are using or switch them off in settings. So I was interviewing women and one of them said she went to her religious authority and she said, My family makes me do everything for them. Of course, nothings happened. Produced by Alex Sujong Laughlin. So write a list of things you have to do and then read through it and see if theres anything you dont want to do. I was talking to my other coaches going, oh my God, this poor woman. Martha Beck: But when we talk about jealousy, most people, their reason I could never be in a polyamorous relationship because of jealousy. And Im Rowan Mangan. She said, Im having very unusual feelings about Row. I was like, really? And I expected to feel jealous, upset. Rowan Mangan: And apparently they invented these to make people feel worse, which is, I dont know, sorry for all our Russian friends out there. Rows bomb came to visit, she was in the guest room. A Nonsense Relationship Boys' Love High school teacher Han YoungJin has his heartbroken by his long time friend and unrequited love. Rowan Mangan: Martha Beck: If so, let us hear from you! Oh, my pedestal. So if we want to follow Bev and say, okay, to come back to our true nature, away from whats our wild nature here, away from the kind of culturally informed codependent. Salty, klutzy and Aussie, Ro co-hosts the Bewildered podcast with her wife, Martha Beck. Who wears the strappy thing? Yes. Yes, its the one polyword I know. Im experiencing the outdoors. I mean, Mormonism had defined the enemies of the church in the latter days as gay people, intellectuals and feminists. I am trying to figure out what to do with our half-Zeus baby as she grows. And you are not in the equation. We are still at the level of he-said/she-said. They are the coolest people. And on this radio program, people would send in stories of the mother or wife in their family who is so depleted by constant care taking, she goes to all the soup kitchens and makes soup all day long, and then she comes home and she makes soup for us. Right. Yeah. A huge lesson for couples based on the revolutionary ways they deal with conflict, jealousy, and daily rituals to stay close. How Martha felt after years of marriage to Karen when Karen told her she was in love with Rowan, too. And I saw you struggle to be really positive. 2023 Audacy, Inc. All rights reserved. Its interesting because, you, at a certain point in your life were a caregiver for someone with paralysis, yeah? I think its a natural way theyve survived being in an orphanage etc. Then we went down to dinner in the other place and when we walked in, someone had his phone open and he was reading about polyamory. And then you try to do it before theyre conscious of wanting it. This time the question comes from Ohio listener Bev, who hopes to learn more about codependencywhat it means and how it applies to her life as a mother and caregiver. And like they ask really inappropriate questions and things that heterosexual couples never have to deal with. Victoria Mcknight. Is there something youve been feeling bewildered about? So I was all like misty-eyed and excited. Let tell you something about growing up Mormon. Do you like blue cheese? Circumstantially polyamorous, a memoir. How Martha felt after years of marriage to Karen when Karen told her she was in love with Rowan, too. Show art by Tara Jacoby. I dont know. The Version table provides details related to the release that this issue/RFE will be addressed. What happens when you don't deliver? Martha Beck: And so when youve got two people telling their absolute best truth to you, it shows you your blind spots. But then we try to make it persist throughout a life cycle where were always there for our kids and were always there for everybody trying to make them happy, the way you would try to make a brand new baby feel happy. Laura beautifully inter Imperfect Paradise is a longform narrative podcast showcasing California stories with universal significance. I like a weirdo against my will. So I do want to know how that goes. What is Polyamory - and how Martha, Rowan, and Karen make their relationship work. Like just happens to line up exactly with the rules of the culture. It was first about addiction and how that affects people. Shes like, I dont know if its right to bring a child into this world. And Im like, Well, you know what? Dr. Martha Beck is a New York Times bestselling author, life coach, and speaker. It is evolutionarily essential. And if youre a Bewildered fan, wed love for you to consider giving us a little rate-and-review love on your favorite podcast player. He really needs to work on his codependency. Come ride a rollercoaster of trust, hope, betrayal, love and loss: from the funny to the devastating. Thats how I got out, get research credit for saving your life. Its actually been so helpful because Adam, hes quite regimented in how he wants to spend his day. So it strikes me that theres going to be a challenge as you try to change your behavior with people that you want to maintain a relationship with just on different terms. I cant tell lies or keep secrets and nothing weird can happen because I would have to tell the entire world about it. Dr. Martha Beck is a New York Times bestselling author, life coach, and speaker. So she looked like I was interrogating her and cast her eyes about wildly about the room, like Id deviously talked her into a corner and now she didnt know how to get out. This episode is all about codependencysacrificing your own needs for those of someone elsebehavior that can lead to exhaustion, resentment, even illness. Bev, shes wrapped in spider silk. You probably know more about it than we do Glennon because we havent read any books. It seemed perfectly natural. These comments were from people from all races, ethnicities, creeds, and nationalities who had felt othered. And then I become what I call the exploding doormat. Do you guys have any rituals like that in your day? I had this bizarre reaction where I felt like I had been hit by a train full of joy, just wham, so much happiness. Then what we are trying to figure out. That is probably easier for most of us to relate to. But on her way, we kept getting these updates from Rowan Mangan. Like gravity. 4. Like we feel very connected in a family way. And they treat me like Im a second class citizen. And the guy looked at her and he goes, But sister, you are a second class citizen. And so she was supposed to go home. I was just When I was in Africa, wed get around the fire pit and wed tell stories. Im a self-help mother. And it means compassion, I guess, but its the joy in watching two people you love love each other. This website uses cookies so that we can provide you with the best user experience possible. Wed heard that term, but we didnt really hadnt thought about it. Like to me, conflict feels very chaotic and scary. Shes awesome. We rehearsed it. So the metaphor I always use with people, once I figured it out for myself, intellectually, if not emotionally, is that if you ask a spider what it loves and whom it loves, it might tell you, I love flies. Because spiders love flies, the way they crunch, the way they taste, all about flies is wonderful for a spider. How does it feel for you when you know youre exhausting yourself taking care of others? What do we do? I think you can restructure it. Rowan Mangan: Im asking about you and how you have done this? Just do something before they stop screaming. Martha Beck: Anyway. Rowan Mangan: Shes exploding like a doormat. So I started reading all these books on polyamory, which by the way, I still have cultural conditioning because if Im out to dinner reading, I like hide the book. I need to know what happened after, like who broke the awkward silence after you said, Like a family. Like what happened next? Martha Beck: I just think thats so freaking cool that you had the courage to do that. A huge lesson for couples based on the revolutionary ways they deal with conflict, jealousy, and . How did your mom, what was her ultimate reaction? Were like, were going to say we have developed a very strong family feeling. Rowan Mangan: They like you to be codependent. Martha Beck: And the answer is, Oh, no, you take it. We would make Row go to sleep in the family room. Actually Bucephalus was Alexander the Greats horse. I mean, we have friends who have come to us and said, listen, just like along the way, I realized that my identity is queer. It is a much more subtle thing. Rowan Mangan: I grew up in a very conservative Mennonite church and so was raised to be a codependent wife and mother. Ro is currently pursuing publication for her first novel, a magical realist thriller set on the west coast of Ireland. Well, I dont have to unhook from those behaviors with people who feel entitled to them? Im really exhausted. Its Karen and Adam. I want to know what they were feeling and thinking at that moment because the culture is not interesting to me. Yeah. How Martha felt - after years of marriage to Karen - when Karen told her she was in love with Rowan, too. It is deeper than nature. Rowan Mangan: How was it for you? I am learning so much about that term and what it means and how it applies to my life as a mother and caregiver. I was lucky to be able to physically move out there. Whats stupid ass things do people say that hurt your feelings? Its right. Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. She must be half Hermes. The first thing is to notice that its happening. I didnt know. I didnt notice. And she says, Yeah, you do. And same with white fragility. Martha Beck: Rowan Mangan: